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	<title>Comments on: Doesn&#8217;t the rejection of a compromise presuppose a reasonable alternative?</title>
	<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/</link>
	<description>Some thoughts on meaning, the web and everything</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14213</link>
		<author>Marc de Graauw</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 07:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14213</guid>
		<description>@Grahame: "...death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?"

I guess the situation that comes to mind first is starting a war. Suppose the only alternative to Yalta would have been to start a war against the Soviet Union in 1945, which would have meant hundreds of thousands more deaths in Eastern Europe: would that have been an alternative to the rotten (or at least lousy) compromise of Yalta? Is it up to you to decide for others whether it's better for them to die or live in chains? My point of view is that at that time, peace + Yalta was better than more war (if we assume for the sake of argument that a better compromise than Yalta was not feasible).

Likewise in Iraq: no doubts about Saddam, he was an inhuman dictator. But how many lives is freedom worth? I think it's clear by now Bush's invasion was a bad idea, but it is not necessarily a bad idea to intervene for humane reasons in all circumstances (think Rwanda). 

Margalit's point of view is that the rejection of a compromise should be taken on grounds which are solely derived from the nature of the other party. If this is an evil regime, like Hitler's, Margalit thinks the compromise should be rejected. I doubt if this holds *without looking at alternatives*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Grahame: &#8220;&#8230;death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess the situation that comes to mind first is starting a war. Suppose the only alternative to Yalta would have been to start a war against the Soviet Union in 1945, which would have meant hundreds of thousands more deaths in Eastern Europe: would that have been an alternative to the rotten (or at least lousy) compromise of Yalta? Is it up to you to decide for others whether it&#8217;s better for them to die or live in chains? My point of view is that at that time, peace + Yalta was better than more war (if we assume for the sake of argument that a better compromise than Yalta was not feasible).</p>
<p>Likewise in Iraq: no doubts about Saddam, he was an inhuman dictator. But how many lives is freedom worth? I think it&#8217;s clear by now Bush&#8217;s invasion was a bad idea, but it is not necessarily a bad idea to intervene for humane reasons in all circumstances (think Rwanda). </p>
<p>Margalit&#8217;s point of view is that the rejection of a compromise should be taken on grounds which are solely derived from the nature of the other party. If this is an evil regime, like Hitler&#8217;s, Margalit thinks the compromise should be rejected. I doubt if this holds *without looking at alternatives*.</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame Grieve</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14212</link>
		<author>Grahame Grieve</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 07:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14212</guid>
		<description>so yes, death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so yes, death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14159</link>
		<author>Marc de Graauw</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14159</guid>
		<description>@Martin: Thanks for he link - I'm downloading it, interesting that he apparently changed his stance on the US Constitution - though the rejection of it as a rotten compromise must certainly have caused a lot of hefty opposition in the USA, where he gave the other lecture.

About death: you're certainly right that death itself is not a true alternative; however choosing a course of action which will probably lead to ones death is. 

My point was more that Grahame's remark about not compromising in certain circumstances avoids the debate in a sense: the alternative for the Western powers after WW II to Yalta might have been a new war; this choice would mean more death and devastation in Eastern Europe, which makes it an unacceptable alternative to Yalta. Deciding it's preferable to die than live in chains is in some ways an easier decision than to decide for others that it is better to die than to live. So Grahame's remark in some ways blunts the dilemma: either Yalta or more terror on Eastern Europe.  He sketches an acceptable alternative: fight on, even if it means death. I'm interested in those cases where there is no real acceptable alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Martin: Thanks for he link - I&#8217;m downloading it, interesting that he apparently changed his stance on the US Constitution - though the rejection of it as a rotten compromise must certainly have caused a lot of hefty opposition in the USA, where he gave the other lecture.</p>
<p>About death: you&#8217;re certainly right that death itself is not a true alternative; however choosing a course of action which will probably lead to ones death is. </p>
<p>My point was more that Grahame&#8217;s remark about not compromising in certain circumstances avoids the debate in a sense: the alternative for the Western powers after WW II to Yalta might have been a new war; this choice would mean more death and devastation in Eastern Europe, which makes it an unacceptable alternative to Yalta. Deciding it&#8217;s preferable to die than live in chains is in some ways an easier decision than to decide for others that it is better to die than to live. So Grahame&#8217;s remark in some ways blunts the dilemma: either Yalta or more terror on Eastern Europe.  He sketches an acceptable alternative: fight on, even if it means death. I&#8217;m interested in those cases where there is no real acceptable alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14158</link>
		<author>Martin</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14158</guid>
		<description>Great write-up of the lecture. I too thought your question was a good and interesting one. It will be interesting to see just how he deals with this issue. I came accross a video of the more or less same lecture by Margalit given in late 2008 in Princeton. see http://video.ias.edu/Compromises (At the end of the lecture somebody in the audience puts to him a similar question regarding Stalin.) Also more interestingly I think is that in this lecture as opposed to one in Amsterdam he clearly states that in his opinion the constitution was a rotten compromise.

PS As death is the negation of existence doesn't that disqualify it as a viable alternative let alone an acceptable one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great write-up of the lecture. I too thought your question was a good and interesting one. It will be interesting to see just how he deals with this issue. I came accross a video of the more or less same lecture by Margalit given in late 2008 in Princeton. see <a href="http://video.ias.edu/Compromises" rel="nofollow">http://video.ias.edu/Compromises</a> (At the end of the lecture somebody in the audience puts to him a similar question regarding Stalin.) Also more interestingly I think is that in this lecture as opposed to one in Amsterdam he clearly states that in his opinion the constitution was a rotten compromise.</p>
<p>PS As death is the negation of existence doesn&#8217;t that disqualify it as a viable alternative let alone an acceptable one?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13929</link>
		<author>Marc de Graauw</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13929</guid>
		<description>@grahame:

"there are some things where you don’t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

- that makes death an acceptable alternative in those circumstances, doesn't it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@grahame:</p>
<p>&#8220;there are some things where you don’t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees&#8221;</p>
<p>- that makes death an acceptable alternative in those circumstances, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame Grieve</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13913</link>
		<author>Grahame Grieve</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13913</guid>
		<description>Since I'm here... The allies agreed to the Munich agreement because they were further behind in their own military build-up, and the correlation of forces was more favourable the longer they could make him wait for the big war. Which is why he kept upping the stakes - because he didn't want to wait.

But in principle, there are some things where you don't compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#8217;m here&#8230; The allies agreed to the Munich agreement because they were further behind in their own military build-up, and the correlation of forces was more favourable the longer they could make him wait for the big war. Which is why he kept upping the stakes - because he didn&#8217;t want to wait.</p>
<p>But in principle, there are some things where you don&#8217;t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.</p>
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