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	<title>Comments on: Doesn&#8217;t the rejection of a compromise presuppose a reasonable alternative?</title>
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	<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/</link>
	<description>Some thoughts on meaning, the web and everything</description>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14213</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc de Graauw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 07:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14213</guid>
		<description>@Grahame: &quot;...death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?&quot;

I guess the situation that comes to mind first is starting a war. Suppose the only alternative to Yalta would have been to start a war against the Soviet Union in 1945, which would have meant hundreds of thousands more deaths in Eastern Europe: would that have been an alternative to the rotten (or at least lousy) compromise of Yalta? Is it up to you to decide for others whether it&#039;s better for them to die or live in chains? My point of view is that at that time, peace + Yalta was better than more war (if we assume for the sake of argument that a better compromise than Yalta was not feasible).

Likewise in Iraq: no doubts about Saddam, he was an inhuman dictator. But how many lives is freedom worth? I think it&#039;s clear by now Bush&#039;s invasion was a bad idea, but it is not necessarily a bad idea to intervene for humane reasons in all circumstances (think Rwanda). 

Margalit&#039;s point of view is that the rejection of a compromise should be taken on grounds which are solely derived from the nature of the other party. If this is an evil regime, like Hitler&#039;s, Margalit thinks the compromise should be rejected. I doubt if this holds *without looking at alternatives*.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Grahame: &#8220;&#8230;death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess the situation that comes to mind first is starting a war. Suppose the only alternative to Yalta would have been to start a war against the Soviet Union in 1945, which would have meant hundreds of thousands more deaths in Eastern Europe: would that have been an alternative to the rotten (or at least lousy) compromise of Yalta? Is it up to you to decide for others whether it&#8217;s better for them to die or live in chains? My point of view is that at that time, peace + Yalta was better than more war (if we assume for the sake of argument that a better compromise than Yalta was not feasible).</p>
<p>Likewise in Iraq: no doubts about Saddam, he was an inhuman dictator. But how many lives is freedom worth? I think it&#8217;s clear by now Bush&#8217;s invasion was a bad idea, but it is not necessarily a bad idea to intervene for humane reasons in all circumstances (think Rwanda). </p>
<p>Margalit&#8217;s point of view is that the rejection of a compromise should be taken on grounds which are solely derived from the nature of the other party. If this is an evil regime, like Hitler&#8217;s, Margalit thinks the compromise should be rejected. I doubt if this holds *without looking at alternatives*.</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame Grieve</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14212</link>
		<dc:creator>Grahame Grieve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 07:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14212</guid>
		<description>so yes, death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so yes, death is an acceptable option. Agree with that. From that sense, when it is not an option?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14159</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc de Graauw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14159</guid>
		<description>@Martin: Thanks for he link - I&#039;m downloading it, interesting that he apparently changed his stance on the US Constitution - though the rejection of it as a rotten compromise must certainly have caused a lot of hefty opposition in the USA, where he gave the other lecture.

About death: you&#039;re certainly right that death itself is not a true alternative; however choosing a course of action which will probably lead to ones death is. 

My point was more that Grahame&#039;s remark about not compromising in certain circumstances avoids the debate in a sense: the alternative for the Western powers after WW II to Yalta might have been a new war; this choice would mean more death and devastation in Eastern Europe, which makes it an unacceptable alternative to Yalta. Deciding it&#039;s preferable to die than live in chains is in some ways an easier decision than to decide for others that it is better to die than to live. So Grahame&#039;s remark in some ways blunts the dilemma: either Yalta or more terror on Eastern Europe.  He sketches an acceptable alternative: fight on, even if it means death. I&#039;m interested in those cases where there is no real acceptable alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Martin: Thanks for he link &#8211; I&#8217;m downloading it, interesting that he apparently changed his stance on the US Constitution &#8211; though the rejection of it as a rotten compromise must certainly have caused a lot of hefty opposition in the USA, where he gave the other lecture.</p>
<p>About death: you&#8217;re certainly right that death itself is not a true alternative; however choosing a course of action which will probably lead to ones death is. </p>
<p>My point was more that Grahame&#8217;s remark about not compromising in certain circumstances avoids the debate in a sense: the alternative for the Western powers after WW II to Yalta might have been a new war; this choice would mean more death and devastation in Eastern Europe, which makes it an unacceptable alternative to Yalta. Deciding it&#8217;s preferable to die than live in chains is in some ways an easier decision than to decide for others that it is better to die than to live. So Grahame&#8217;s remark in some ways blunts the dilemma: either Yalta or more terror on Eastern Europe.  He sketches an acceptable alternative: fight on, even if it means death. I&#8217;m interested in those cases where there is no real acceptable alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14158</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 12:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-14158</guid>
		<description>Great write-up of the lecture. I too thought your question was a good and interesting one. It will be interesting to see just how he deals with this issue. I came accross a video of the more or less same lecture by Margalit given in late 2008 in Princeton. see http://video.ias.edu/Compromises (At the end of the lecture somebody in the audience puts to him a similar question regarding Stalin.) Also more interestingly I think is that in this lecture as opposed to one in Amsterdam he clearly states that in his opinion the constitution was a rotten compromise.

PS As death is the negation of existence doesn&#039;t that disqualify it as a viable alternative let alone an acceptable one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great write-up of the lecture. I too thought your question was a good and interesting one. It will be interesting to see just how he deals with this issue. I came accross a video of the more or less same lecture by Margalit given in late 2008 in Princeton. see <a href="http://video.ias.edu/Compromises" rel="nofollow">http://video.ias.edu/Compromises</a> (At the end of the lecture somebody in the audience puts to him a similar question regarding Stalin.) Also more interestingly I think is that in this lecture as opposed to one in Amsterdam he clearly states that in his opinion the constitution was a rotten compromise.</p>
<p>PS As death is the negation of existence doesn&#8217;t that disqualify it as a viable alternative let alone an acceptable one?</p>
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		<title>By: Marc de Graauw</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13929</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc de Graauw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13929</guid>
		<description>@grahame:

&quot;there are some things where you don’t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees&quot;

- that makes death an acceptable alternative in those circumstances, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@grahame:</p>
<p>&#8220;there are some things where you don’t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees&#8221;</p>
<p>- that makes death an acceptable alternative in those circumstances, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Grahame Grieve</title>
		<link>http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13913</link>
		<dc:creator>Grahame Grieve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marcdegraauw.com/2009/04/18/doesnt-the-rejection-of-a-compromise-presuppose-a-reasonable-alternative/#comment-13913</guid>
		<description>Since I&#039;m here... The allies agreed to the Munich agreement because they were further behind in their own military build-up, and the correlation of forces was more favourable the longer they could make him wait for the big war. Which is why he kept upping the stakes - because he didn&#039;t want to wait.

But in principle, there are some things where you don&#039;t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I&#8217;m here&#8230; The allies agreed to the Munich agreement because they were further behind in their own military build-up, and the correlation of forces was more favourable the longer they could make him wait for the big war. Which is why he kept upping the stakes &#8211; because he didn&#8217;t want to wait.</p>
<p>But in principle, there are some things where you don&#8217;t compromise, even in the absence of an acceptable alternative: better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.</p>
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